I just read a fascinating piece on Newsweek's website titled, "Gay Marriage: Our Mutual Joy." I encourage all who have an interest in this topic and what the Bible has to say about it to read this. Those who point to Scripture to back up their argument that marriage is only between a man and a woman are, as it turns out, sadly mistaken.
My favorite quote from the piece is this: "The practice of inclusion, even in defiance of social convention, the reaching out to outcasts, the emphasis on togetherness and community over and against chaos, depravity, indifference—all these biblical values argue for gay marriage."
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Saturday, December 6, 2008
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6 comments:
Check your version of the Bible. Both new and Old Testament are against homosexuality.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
You stated yourself in your post that you'd love to hear thoughts on this. So, there you go. Those aren't MY words. They are PAUL's. So, if you disagree with them, I'm fine with that. Because you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Bible.
And why do you use a secular article to base your conclusion that those who use scripture to back up their argument are "sadly mistaken"?
Maybe you should read lots of scripture, see what it says, compare it to the secular article and THEN decide which piece you're going to defend.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”- 1 Corinthians 1:18
I fear God more than I fear man. I pray that always remains true.
The Bible is a living, breathing work. It is not a book about sexuality, but a book about God and his love for us. There are many examples in both the Old and New Testament of sexual practices that are condoned that we no longer accept, and some that the Bible prohibits that are now acceptable. For instance:
* DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
* DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
* MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
* LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
* MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
* DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
Surely you will agree that these verses are not to be taken literally today, yet you do not apply this same standard to a mere handful of verses that you claim condemn homosexuality. I think there is a reason why Jesus never uttered a word about the subject (neither did the Jewish prophets), but had plenty to say about loving one another, helping the poor, and treating even lepers and prostitutes with respect.
You're misquoting MARK 12:18-27, look up the full verse. The portion you quoted is actually paraphrasing Moses, so is an OT portion of scripture.
Yes, there are a lot of OT practices we don't follow anymore. I won't draw a line in the sand and say that we can just disregard the OT, as I think God still has lessons for us there. That said, I don't subscribe to the directions or punishments outline in the verses you provided. We're in a new relationship with God because of Jesus' scrafice and new covenant.
I agree with what you're saying about Jesus promoting social justice and other causes. And, we should love one another. But, that doesn't mean that "anything goes." And I also agree with you that Jesus is never personally recorded in the gospels, or acts, as saying the word "homosexuality", but in Matthew 15:19 (New International Version) Jesus DOES say:
19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
So, I guess it depends on what your definition of sexual immorality is. Based on several of Paul's writings, it includes homosexuality.
2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
says:
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
So, if you believe that is true, (that all scripture comes from God)then God still does not approve of homosexuality, as recorded in Paul's (inspired) writings:
Romans 1:26-27 (New International Version)
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Well, I can see that I am not going to convince you, and vice versa, so we will just have to agree to disagree. I stand in the knowledge that Jesus was all about love and acceptance, not hate and fear, and that there are many, many very learned theologians, clergy and believers who embrace a view different than yours. Just as scripture has been used over the centuries to justify many evils, from slavery to harsh punishment for minor offenses, so it is being used today to condemn some who were created in God's image, just as you and I were.
And no, it doesn't mean anything goes. Much of the debate centers on the translations from Greek and Hebrew. And since I know neither, I prefer to err on the side of love, as Jesus taught.
P.S. Why do you keep changing your screen name?
Thank you for responding to the posts. This is one of the tough areas for Christians to reconcile and is causing divisions in the church. I don't want to be a legalistic Pharisee, but I also don't want to dismiss God's word and accept the world's standard. I don't want to be one of the "approving" people Paul is talking about in Romans 1:32 "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
Back to your comment about treating even prostitutes with respect. Indeed, Jesus forgave the woman at the well, but he also rebuked her saying "go and sin no more." Jesus is full of love and forgiveness, but also calls us to live righteously.
Thanks for being open for discussion. The most important understanding we need to have about Jesus and his teachings is that we're only saved if we believe in Him. His grace covers the rest!
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